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	<title>Comments on: Webapp Death Match: Google vs. Apple</title>
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	<link>http://informationarchitects.jp/webapp-death-match-google-vs-apple/</link>
	<description>Information Architects Japan</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:49:32 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://informationarchitects.jp/webapp-death-match-google-vs-apple/comment-page-2/#comment-152686</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 04:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://informationarchitects.jp/?p=690#comment-152686</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I&#039;m sure that this has already been mentioned (I did not read every comment), but you are comparing different fruit here.  You cannot evaluate a UI in a vacuum, dismissing consideration for the target audience.  Most Mobile me clients are familiar with OS X, so the objective is consistency of UI experience with OS X.  These folks are probably already OS X/Apple Mail users, so the whole point is to make them feel comfortable, to give them that with which they are already familiar.  This is the application-based approach.  For those who are not OS X users, the objective is to introduce them to the OS X aesthetic, the better to turn them into Switchers later.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Google, on the other hand, has to accommodate folks from all corners of life, and make operations obvious to everyone they encounter, so it didn&#039;t take rocket science to decide to use actual words for the top navigation.  This pretty much eliminates elegance as a design objective for Google, whereas it&#039;s essential at Apple.  This is a web-based approach.  Of course, this might also help explain the recent high-profile exodus of design-types from Google.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure that this has already been mentioned (I did not read every comment), but you are comparing different fruit here.  You cannot evaluate a UI in a vacuum, dismissing consideration for the target audience.  Most Mobile me clients are familiar with OS X, so the objective is consistency of UI experience with OS X.  These folks are probably already OS X/Apple Mail users, so the whole point is to make them feel comfortable, to give them that with which they are already familiar.  This is the application-based approach.  For those who are not OS X users, the objective is to introduce them to the OS X aesthetic, the better to turn them into Switchers later.</p>

<p>Google, on the other hand, has to accommodate folks from all corners of life, and make operations obvious to everyone they encounter, so it didn&#8217;t take rocket science to decide to use actual words for the top navigation.  This pretty much eliminates elegance as a design objective for Google, whereas it&#8217;s essential at Apple.  This is a web-based approach.  Of course, this might also help explain the recent high-profile exodus of design-types from Google.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: David Chambers</title>
		<link>http://informationarchitects.jp/webapp-death-match-google-vs-apple/comment-page-2/#comment-152655</link>
		<dc:creator>David Chambers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 17:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://informationarchitects.jp/?p=690#comment-152655</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I have been using both Gmail and Mac OS X for several years and ardently support both. While I agree with the comments that many have made about Gmail&#039;s cluttered interface, this can be mitigated to some extent by hiding unwanted features.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I use Gmail because it is fast, reliable, and provides plenty of storage free of charge. In other words, it is the underlying service that Gmail provides which makes it indispensable to so many, not its user interface. That being said, however, Gmail&#039;s &quot;threading&quot; of messages is absolutely brilliant. Apple — quite wisely — decided to do the same thing with text messages on the iPhone.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been using both Gmail and Mac OS X for several years and ardently support both. While I agree with the comments that many have made about Gmail&#8217;s cluttered interface, this can be mitigated to some extent by hiding unwanted features.</p>

<p>I use Gmail because it is fast, reliable, and provides plenty of storage free of charge. In other words, it is the underlying service that Gmail provides which makes it indispensable to so many, not its user interface. That being said, however, Gmail&#8217;s &#8220;threading&#8221; of messages is absolutely brilliant. Apple — quite wisely — decided to do the same thing with text messages on the iPhone.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Thomas Petersen</title>
		<link>http://informationarchitects.jp/webapp-death-match-google-vs-apple/comment-page-2/#comment-152607</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Petersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 09:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://informationarchitects.jp/?p=690#comment-152607</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think you are making an error here.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You talk about something specific i.e. mobileMe and make general statements about aesthetics.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That is obviously a problematic approach.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;the iPhone works BECAUSE of it&#039;s graphic approach. A game works BEACAUSE of it&#039;s graphic approach. The OS Desktop works BECAUSE of it&#039;s graphic approach.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;At the end of the day all that gmail really have going for them is speed. Which is of course a great great feature.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you are making an error here.</p>

<p>You talk about something specific i.e. mobileMe and make general statements about aesthetics.</p>

<p>That is obviously a problematic approach.</p>

<p>the iPhone works BECAUSE of it&#8217;s graphic approach. A game works BEACAUSE of it&#8217;s graphic approach. The OS Desktop works BECAUSE of it&#8217;s graphic approach.</p>

<p>At the end of the day all that gmail really have going for them is speed. Which is of course a great great feature.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: David R</title>
		<link>http://informationarchitects.jp/webapp-death-match-google-vs-apple/comment-page-2/#comment-152549</link>
		<dc:creator>David R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 05:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://informationarchitects.jp/?p=690#comment-152549</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Something that&#039;s bothering me about Apple&#039;s recent design choices is they&#039;ve been steering toward guessing what you want.  I don&#039;t really appreciate their Genius feature in iTunes or the new Top Sites feature in Safari, it feels like a marketer&#039;s ripoff of Opera&#039;s visual bookmarks.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I wrote a little criticism of it if you&#039;re interested: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.davidraffauf.com/blog/whose_top_sites&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Whose Top Sites?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something that&#8217;s bothering me about Apple&#8217;s recent design choices is they&#8217;ve been steering toward guessing what you want.  I don&#8217;t really appreciate their Genius feature in iTunes or the new Top Sites feature in Safari, it feels like a marketer&#8217;s ripoff of Opera&#8217;s visual bookmarks.</p>

<p>I wrote a little criticism of it if you&#8217;re interested: <a href="http://www.davidraffauf.com/blog/whose_top_sites" rel="nofollow">Whose Top Sites?</a></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Leon Paternoster</title>
		<link>http://informationarchitects.jp/webapp-death-match-google-vs-apple/comment-page-2/#comment-152130</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon Paternoster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 21:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://informationarchitects.jp/?p=690#comment-152130</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t think it really matters whether gmail or Apple use an application or web page interface when Apple&#039;s icons take some figuring out and are therefore less effective than gmail&#039;s textual labels.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;My main criticism of gmail is that I still have to search for the &#039;Compose message&#039; link despite having used it for a couple of years. Some icons to accompany the text would help, I think.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;If I&#039;m using a browser I expect to see web pages and all the associated conventions.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it really matters whether gmail or Apple use an application or web page interface when Apple&#8217;s icons take some figuring out and are therefore less effective than gmail&#8217;s textual labels.</p>

<p>My main criticism of gmail is that I still have to search for the &#8216;Compose message&#8217; link despite having used it for a couple of years. Some icons to accompany the text would help, I think.</p>

<p>If I&#8217;m using a browser I expect to see web pages and all the associated conventions.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Gist</title>
		<link>http://informationarchitects.jp/webapp-death-match-google-vs-apple/comment-page-1/#comment-152086</link>
		<dc:creator>Gist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 03:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://informationarchitects.jp/?p=690#comment-152086</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Food for thought.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There&#039;s something to be said for the over-polished, iconography driven style that Apple runs with. If a person can learn the icons crucial to their needs, then the icons ARE the content, regardless of the aesthetic.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Related to that, if icons are learnt then you have connected to what the overwhelming majority of internet users long for - which is this Yahoo/AOL cartoon feel. Many people do consider Google to be the internet but many more of those people still Search for Google from their Yahoo or AOL pages... sadly. So while many people have transitioned to a Gmail state of mind, how many haven&#039;t and what are those people used to... are they used to learning icons?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t know if they are, I don&#039;t use AOL or Yahoo. I&#039;m an elitist. I use Google stuff. I also use Apple stuff and it&#039;s beeaauutiful. So.. meh. I figure it&#039;s just good to mention that aesthetic isn&#039;t content, but icons, icons are the original content. And regardless whether those ideas are made of words (a la Google) or they are made of an image (a la Apple)... I think largely it&#039;s a matter of learned placement too.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Tanget note: I wonder If icons have greater scalability in an every changing interface world. If the touch screen craze comes off our phones an on to other surfaces, I&#039;d say that learned icons might lend themselves to greater versatility.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Food for thought.</p>

<p>There&#8217;s something to be said for the over-polished, iconography driven style that Apple runs with. If a person can learn the icons crucial to their needs, then the icons ARE the content, regardless of the aesthetic.</p>

<p>Related to that, if icons are learnt then you have connected to what the overwhelming majority of internet users long for &#8211; which is this Yahoo/AOL cartoon feel. Many people do consider Google to be the internet but many more of those people still Search for Google from their Yahoo or AOL pages&#8230; sadly. So while many people have transitioned to a Gmail state of mind, how many haven&#8217;t and what are those people used to&#8230; are they used to learning icons?</p>

<p>I don&#8217;t know if they are, I don&#8217;t use AOL or Yahoo. I&#8217;m an elitist. I use Google stuff. I also use Apple stuff and it&#8217;s beeaauutiful. So.. meh. I figure it&#8217;s just good to mention that aesthetic isn&#8217;t content, but icons, icons are the original content. And regardless whether those ideas are made of words (a la Google) or they are made of an image (a la Apple)&#8230; I think largely it&#8217;s a matter of learned placement too.</p>

<p>Tanget note: I wonder If icons have greater scalability in an every changing interface world. If the touch screen craze comes off our phones an on to other surfaces, I&#8217;d say that learned icons might lend themselves to greater versatility.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Impaler</title>
		<link>http://informationarchitects.jp/webapp-death-match-google-vs-apple/comment-page-1/#comment-152018</link>
		<dc:creator>Impaler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 21:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://informationarchitects.jp/?p=690#comment-152018</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Terrific discussion!  I have been on the fence about Gmail and MobileMe for months.  I really want to like the web interface of MobileMe.  But when I&#039;m in there, I don&#039;t trust it.  Trust is very important in a web app, especially knowing my data is sitting behind it.  The random page re-loads, the wait times, slowness, lack of good search, etc., really hamper the web app&#039;s performance.  Gmail is quick, it works, and at the end of the day, I agonize over all this because I want function over form.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terrific discussion!  I have been on the fence about Gmail and MobileMe for months.  I really want to like the web interface of MobileMe.  But when I&#8217;m in there, I don&#8217;t trust it.  Trust is very important in a web app, especially knowing my data is sitting behind it.  The random page re-loads, the wait times, slowness, lack of good search, etc., really hamper the web app&#8217;s performance.  Gmail is quick, it works, and at the end of the day, I agonize over all this because I want function over form.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Gmail vs.&#160;MobileMe &#124; Pat Dryburgh</title>
		<link>http://informationarchitects.jp/webapp-death-match-google-vs-apple/comment-page-1/#comment-152017</link>
		<dc:creator>Gmail vs.&#160;MobileMe &#124; Pat Dryburgh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://informationarchitects.jp/?p=690#comment-152017</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[...] an interesting article at Information Architects regarding the difference between the user interfaces of Gmail and MobileMe. They award the prize to [...]&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] an interesting article at Information Architects regarding the difference between the user interfaces of Gmail and MobileMe. They award the prize to [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jim Harner</title>
		<link>http://informationarchitects.jp/webapp-death-match-google-vs-apple/comment-page-1/#comment-151997</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Harner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 03:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://informationarchitects.jp/?p=690#comment-151997</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Apple has churned out a lot of code in the last year or so (Leopard, iPhone OS X, mobile.me, etc.). Snow Leopard, probably a Spring release, is all about optimization. Likewise for the web. Javascript will be 10x faster. Google is a bit ahead in terms of their optimization of Javascript, but Apple will soon be there.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;My problem is that Google apps and gmail, etc are just plain ugly. This is a show stopper for me, particularly since Apple&#039;s apps are reasonably fast, at least for me. Also, I know that the Apple apps and web apps will soon be optimized.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apple has churned out a lot of code in the last year or so (Leopard, iPhone OS X, mobile.me, etc.). Snow Leopard, probably a Spring release, is all about optimization. Likewise for the web. Javascript will be 10x faster. Google is a bit ahead in terms of their optimization of Javascript, but Apple will soon be there.</p>

<p>My problem is that Google apps and gmail, etc are just plain ugly. This is a show stopper for me, particularly since Apple&#8217;s apps are reasonably fast, at least for me. Also, I know that the Apple apps and web apps will soon be optimized.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John Wright</title>
		<link>http://informationarchitects.jp/webapp-death-match-google-vs-apple/comment-page-1/#comment-151996</link>
		<dc:creator>John Wright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://informationarchitects.jp/?p=690#comment-151996</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;David, &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Perhaps Apple is &quot;not so fastidious about load times&quot; because just as Google is not a design company as noted above, Apple is not a web-scale engineering company like Google.  Their server architecture is probably held in place by their emphasis on quality and the iron-fistedness of Steve Jobs, and less by their technical architecture.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, </p>

<p>Perhaps Apple is &#8220;not so fastidious about load times&#8221; because just as Google is not a design company as noted above, Apple is not a web-scale engineering company like Google.  Their server architecture is probably held in place by their emphasis on quality and the iron-fistedness of Steve Jobs, and less by their technical architecture.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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